Curse

saopaulo · Jan 13, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

i also did not profit from this exploit but yet they have still told me i have exploited it 18 times..i only entered the mission once from the forbidden outpost and during that i left mid battle.its clear the investigation is not thorough enough but lets hope they delve a little deeper for the sake of justice. like i said earlier i care nothing for my account but i want justice done and an apology although i can see why i have been banned as it gives them a chance to review the whole situation although i cannot condone the lack of competence thus far.
here is their response to my ticket:

Thank you very much for contacting the PlayNC Customer Support Team.

After investigating the reported issue, we can confirm that your account has rightfully been suspended from our service as a result of a violation of our rules that you agreed to when you first launched Guild Wars. Specifically, your account was suspended for:

- Exploiting

The details of this incident are on record and we can confirm that you exploited 18 times. We will not remove the suspension from your account.

....to my knowledge it was more like 3 or 4 times i went to the bugged area and only once entered the mission...lol wtf
18 times...incompetence thus far.
i await a deeper investigation and will keep you guys posted

How come my account is alrdy terminated when i ask about my game logs. Anya ,I was in your guild and was one of the last players know about this exploit. And if you think you get your 9000h+ account back ,they defenitly should give back mine!

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by saopaulo

How come my account is alrdy terminated when i ask about my game logs. Anya ,I was in your guild and was one of the last players know about this exploit. And if you think you get your 9000h+ account back ,they defenitly should give back mine!

you only exploited it once right?
i might get my account back for the reason that i did not aim to gain nothing from going to the area. they have logged me as being there and im still waiting for them to find out that i have never deliberately gained from it. as far as i know the day you got banned was the day you first found out about the exploit, its just down to how much you did in that one day
keep sending in tickets bud you are one of the guys i dont want to be banned

Chthon · Jan 13, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

1. In principle at least, a-net has done the right thing. Abusing this was certainly banworthy, no doubt.

2. In practice, a-net seems to have royally screwed up on figuring out who was abusing the outpost and who was just along for the ride. My guess is that they did not (and perhaps still do not) understand that one trip to Mallyx required multiple trips to the outpost -- hence the discrepancy between the number of times Mickey and Anya say they went in, and the number of times a-net says they went in.

3. The larger lesson here is a game-design one -- one I thought that had been learned after D2, but which apparently got unlearned sometime between Prophecies and Nightfall. If you make things that are so rare that most players have no realistic chance of ever attaining them through normal gameplay, then you will inevitably end up with a few people trying to get them through cheating. Super-rare "leet" items are a bad, bad, bad thing for a game to have if they want to avoid this sort of cheating. Look back over GW and you can see the cheating incidents increasing in proportion with the introduction of super-rare "leet" items. There's a reason that the two biggest cheating incidents in GW are both related to DoA. Let's hope that a-net learns from this one not only about writing more secure code, but also about not creating huge incentives to cheat in the first place.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. In principle at least, a-net has done the right thing. Abusing this was certainly banworthy, no doubt.

2. In practice, a-net seems to have royally screwed up on figuring out who was abusing the outpost and who was just along for the ride. My guess is that they did not (and perhaps still do not) understand that one trip to Mallyx required multiple trips to the outpost -- hence the discrepancy between the number of times Mickey and Anya say they went in, and the number of times a-net says they went in.

3. The larger lesson here is a game-design one -- one I thought that had been learned after D2, but which apparently got unlearned sometime between Prophecies and Nightfall. If you make things that are so rare that most players have no realistic chance of ever attaining them through normal gameplay, then you will inevitably end up with a few people trying to get them through cheating. Super-rare "leet" items are a bad, bad, bad thing for a game to have if they want to avoid this sort of cheating. Look back over GW and you can see the cheating incidents increasing in proportion with the introduction of super-rare "leet" items. There's a reason that the two biggest cheating incidents in GW are both related to DoA. Let's hope that a-net learns from this one not only about writing more secure code, but also about not creating huge incentives to cheat in the first place.

they should secure those areas i agree and also listen to bug reports...4 months ago this was first reported. fix problem>no exploit?
although i disagree with "leet items" theory.
im sure they will make amends to secure this wont happen again
PS: i cant believe they deleted all the crap and we still have 98 pages lol

Jake_Steel · Jan 13, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

2. In practice, a-net seems to have royally screwed up on figuring out who was abusing the outpost and who was just along for the ride. My guess is that they did not (and perhaps still do not) understand that one trip to Mallyx required multiple trips to the outpost -- hence the discrepancy between the number of times Mickey and Anya say they went in, and the number of times a-net says they went in.

To be honest they did the smart thing and banned people quickly and are now offering to give those people who feel they were unjustly banned a right to appeal (something they in no way have to do.). The banned however are expecting a response immediately, over a WEEKEND. I would expect over the first half of next week we'll see some reports of people actually being communicated with.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

thus far they have done the investigation all wrong...
all the time they wasting on finding out how many times people went there and not actually exploiting the "exploit" by skipping to mallyx. they have to redo my whole investigation becuase they where looking in the wrong area but i will say this, it took them only about 12 hours to respond to my ticket...gg so far just hope they have means to prove people innocent because so far they are going the wrong way about it
gaile said something earlier about the outpost itself being an exploit, in which, it is, to a degree.it exploits passage to mallyx, if you do this you are still cheating by skipping the other bosses but imo you are not guilty of exploiting ANYTHING until you click "start mission"so if someone is there without intention of using the exploit then....
this is what anet need to prove.
i am guilty of going to the place which gave me the chance to exploit the game.despite the temptation i still NEVER defeated mallyx from this outpost (even thou i was mallyx ready) AND i only entered the battle once in which i left mid battle.

grrr im getting stressed lol

Jake_Steel · Jan 13, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

thus far they have done the investigation all wrong...
all the time they wasting on finding out how many times people went there and not actually exploiting the "exploit" by skipping to mallyx. they have to redo my whole investigation becuase they where looking in the wrong area but i will say this, it took them only about 12 hours to respond to my ticket...gg so far just hope they have means to prove people innocent because so far they are going the wrong way about it
gaile said something earlier about the outpost itself being an exploit, in which, it is. it allows access to the final boss. so the actual town is an exploit BUT if someone is there without intention of using the exploit then....
this is what anet need to prove.
i am guilty of going to the place which gave me the chance to exploit the game.despite the temptation i still NEVER defeated mallyx from this outpost (even thou i was mallyx ready) AND i only entered the battle once in which i left mid battle.

grrr im getting stressed lol

Just going to the outpost is enough to warrant banning. Whether or not you ever even laid eyes upon Mallyx is irrellevant. Also, how many responses can you expect from the team over the weekend? It's SUNDAY right now.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake_Steel

Just going to the outpost is enough to warrant banning. Whether or not you ever even laid eyes upon Mallyx is irrellevant. Also, how many responses can you expect from the team over the weekend? It's SUNDAY right now.

i editted my post. its more accurate now.
the area is only an exploit if you click accept mission. just being there isnt gaining nothing and benefits no one until they click the go button. so dont try it with the "Just going to the outpost is enough to warrant banning"

i could sit in that outpost all day with friends provided i had reported it and aslong as i dont click the go button and not break EULA.as we are not "exploiting" and are not "gaining anything we dont deserve". think about it...if you quote this i will post the EULA ruling which will prove you wrong

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

And that attitude only makes you look guilty because you're laying the blame on someone else. It doesnt matter how long it took for them to fix the bug. It's not like the bug was unavoidable in normal circumstances. You could have easily just NOT used the bug. If you have that little self control to NOT use it then that's what the ban is for, so you don't exploit bugs in the future.

Dude, I already know this, I am trying to bargain for a second chance so I can display this. Would you lay off already, you've flamed half of us, and no, I'm not laying the blame on someone else, I'm simply saying, not all the blame needs to shoot to us.

Tickle · Jan 13, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake_Steel

To be honest they did the smart thing and banned people quickly and are now offering to give those people who feel they were unjustly banned a right to appeal (something they in no way have to do.). The banned however are expecting a response immediately, over a WEEKEND. I would expect over the first half of next week we'll see some reports of people actually being communicated with.

I'm hoping they do and those that they do contact please keep us posted. I've submitted another ticket but tbh I'm thinking its all a waste of time on my behalf as they have already terminated my account.
I've posted my case to you all here and to the support team. Nothing else can be done apart from wait and see.
You could say I've got a defeatist attitude towards this and with good reason, but to those still fighting to get reinstated, good luck you will be needing it especially since they terminated my account when I got ferried there and only entered the mission once (only to be in there for all of 30 seconds (at the most)).
I admit that although I only went into the mission once at the end of the day it was my own failing for not taking my paragon out of that area and into another area instead of the guild hall.
The game schematics are failed that they don't outline "Logged into Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx -> Loading into Xxxxx Outpost." If they did I might have actually got my account back.
But alas I'll just go back to my spot between the rock and the hard-place and will keep an eye on this topic and the plight of those affected by this.

Jake_Steel · Jan 13, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

i editted my post. its more accurate now.
the area is only an exploit if you click accept mission. just being there isnt gaining nothing and benefits no one until they click the go button. so dont try it with the "Just going to the outpost is enough to warrant banning"

i could sit in that outpost all day with friends provided i had reported it and aslong as i dont click the go button and not break EULA.as we are not "exploiting" and are not "gaining anything we dont deserve". think about it...if you quote this i will post the EULA ruling which will prove you wrong

I don't have to try it. Anet, through Gaile, has explicitly stated even being in the outpost is enough to warrant banning.

That couldn't be further from the truth. Even accessing the outpost is an exploit, even "standing around" in the outpost doing nothing is an exploit and a breach of EULA. Anet has said so, they are the ones who get to decide such things. You can not agree with it, but you can't make it untrue.

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake_Steel

I don't have to try it. Anet, through Gaile, has explicitly stated even being in the outpost is enough to warrant banning.

Which is absolutely ridiculous, especially after she said that they would take into account special cases where people were dragged there. Those people are banned right now, and can do nothing about it. If I had just been dragged there, and I was banned for more than 4 days, I would be pretty ticked.

At Jake Steel: Yeah, your right, but as a User who was dragged against or with their will, and then immediately banned, for staying in the outpost no longer than 5 seconds. I would be ticked, but I am not in that position.

Jake_Steel · Jan 13, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Which is absolutely ridiculous, especially after she said that they would take into account special cases where people were dragged there. Those people are banned right now, and can do nothing about it. If I had just been dragged there, and I was banned for more than 4 days, I would be pretty ticked.

Being upset is understandable, however, that doesn't take away from the absolute fact that Anet did something that was entirely within their right and legally and realistically there is nothing you can do about it if they decide to uphold their banning.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake_Steel

I don't have to try it. Anet, through Gaile, has explicitly stated even being in the outpost is enough to warrant banning.

That couldn't be further from the truth. Even accessing the outpost is an exploit, even "standing around" in the outpost doing nothing is an exploit and a breach of EULA. Anet has said so, they are the ones who get to decide such things. You can not agree with it, but you can't make it untrue.

guild wars rules of conduct;
rule 19:you will not exploit any bug in guild wars. you will not communicate the existance of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of guild wars. bugs should be promptly reported via bla bla

ok unnatural or unintended benefits..

Definitions of benefit on the Web:

financial assistance in time of need
profit: derive a benefit from; "She profited from his vast experience"
something that aids or promotes well-being; "for the common good"
a performance to raise money for a charitable cause
be beneficial for; "This will do you good"

defintion of exploit from the web:
In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers

read it....carefully
and please dont make me define prosperity lol

affected area=bug
clicking accept mission=exploit

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

guild wars rules of conduct;
rule 19:you will not exploit any bug in guild wars. you will not communicate the existance of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of guild wars. bugs should be promptly reported via bla bla

ok unnatural or unintended benefits..

Definitions of benefit on the Web:

financial assistance in time of need
profit: derive a benefit from; "She profited from his vast experience"
something that aids or promotes well-being; "for the common good"
a performance to raise money for a charitable cause
be beneficial for; "This will do you good"

defintion of exploit from the web:
In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers

read it....carefully
and please dont make me define prosperity lol

If this was true, I would be scotch free, but that is not all that Anet is judging at the moment. If you broke the rules, you have to pay the price, now, the only thing worth bargaining is the price.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

how can it not be true? those are REAL definitions and that is the REAL rule 19
read it please. going to the outpost doesnt exploit nothing, you are just taking advantage of a bug or even unwittingly taken advantage of a hak which is not your fault...you didnt hack it. the exploit is clicking accept mission because the moment you click that button you skip all DOA bosses. THAT my friends, is the exploit..

Jake_Steel · Jan 13, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

guild wars rules of conduct;
rule 19:you will not exploit any bug in guild wars. you will not communicate the existance of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of guild wars. bugs should be promptly reported via bla bla

ok unnatural or unintended benefits..

Definitions of benefit on the Web:

financial assistance in time of need
profit: derive a benefit from; "She profited from his vast experience"
something that aids or promotes well-being; "for the common good"
a performance to raise money for a charitable cause
be beneficial for; "This will do you good"

defintion of exploit from the web:
In the realm of online games, an exploit is usually a software bug, hack or bot that contributes to the user's prosperity in a manner not intended by the developers

read it....carefully
and please dont make me define prosperity lol

affected area=bug
clicking accept mission=exploit

Everything you just said is irrelevant. Being in an "out of bounds" area, via an exploit is more than enough to get Anet to ban you. Why? THEY SAID SO! Anet has the right to revoke your access to their servers at any time for any reason. I realize this is difficult to believe (specially when you don't want to believe it) but it's the absolute fact of this incident that cannot be denied.

Mickey · Jan 14, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I would like to say that the post concerning the Petition to Unban the 117 on that website is the most productive post that this thread has spit out. Can we please keep it up Inde? Is there a problem with having a petition here, besides that it belongs in Sardelac, but it probably will not be taken very well there, and it should belong in the 99 page thread concerning it, lol.

lacasner · Jan 14, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Anya, I think the point jake is attempting to make is that whether or not what is true or untrue isn't significant to what decision Anet makes...things that may be true in the real world or anywhere else don't apply here...It's Anets ballgame and you can choose to abide by their rules or not to play. Simple as that.

Puritans Aid · Jan 14, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

yes, we still have the town, or at least our log in screens show it as there. If we log them to exit the town, we are afraid we will get banned.

HELP.

We havent gotten any responses on our tickets to anet.